Episode 37 | A Conversation with Dan Ives on Tech Investing and AI

In Episode 37 of “Market News with Rodney Lake,” Professor Lake, Director of the GW Investment Institute, interviews Dan Ives, Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at Wedbush Securities, focusing on the transformative impact of AI on major tech companies. Ives emphasizes Nvidia's dominance in AI hardware, predicting its market cap could reach $4-5 trillion due to its unmatched technology and ecosystem. On Tesla, Ives remarks on the long-term potential in autonomous robotics despite short-term controversies and management challenges. Ives and Lake also discuss Apple, Microsoft, and Palantir as leaders in the tech sector with strong growth opportunities. Other key takeaways include the importance of cybersecurity, the global AI arms race led by the U.S. and China, and advice for students entering financial services. Throughout the discussion, Ives underscores the value of strong management and the need to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving tech landscape.

Transcript

Rodney Lake
 Thank you for joining “Market News with Rodney Lake.” This is a regular program for the GW Investment Institute where we talk about timely market topics. I'm Rodney Lake, the Director of the GW Investment Institute. Let's get started. Welcome back to “Market News with Rodney Lake.” I'm your host, Rodney Lake. Today, very, very special guest, Mr. Dan Ives from Wedbush Securities.

Rodney Lake
 Dan, thank you for being here. We're so thrilled, thrilled, beyond thrilled that you're here. Special shout out to Mr. Greg Wong who made this connection, who's on our advisory board for the Investment Institute. And to Mr. Russ Ramsey long ago. The three of you were at FBR. That is connecting fabric here. So we're like, you know, to the moon here, with this set up.

Rodney Lake
 And so we're so happy that you're here. Maybe, for those living under a stone that watch our show, which may be very few, maybe a brief introduction for yourself.

Dan Ives
 Yeah. And Greg and Russ are both goats. Look, so, I mean, I for 25 years, I've covered tech stocks on Wall Street and that it started off at FBR, and then I've been Wedbush from seven years. And look, I think many people know me as really one being identifying technology trends and winners where maybe others didn't see it.

Dan Ives
 And I think in this environment and even, you know, really over the last few decades, the best opportunities sometimes been there. Yeah. But at the time it didn't seem like it. And that's sort of how we built reputation hand-holding investors globally throughout tech. You call me perma bullish, but I believe but I believe you know, we were still in really which essentially year three when it comes to AI of what's going to be an 8 to 10 year build out.

Rodney Lake
 Perfect. So let's jump right into AI. And so one of the largest holdings or actually the largest holding for the Investment Institute student funds is Nvidia. And I know a name that you talk a lot about. And the market has been pulling back for sure here over the last couple of weeks. And, you know, but, you know, a lot of different reasons might that may be the case.

Rodney Lake
 But, you know, what's your outlook for Nvidia from here? Lots of people obviously have very specific views on where they are. They just had their GTC conference in California. And, you know, I think you get these divergent views. Some people think like, okay, well, you know, maybe that run has happened and they're overbought. And this this pullback is deserved.

Rodney Lake
 And maybe that's what should happen. But if you if you sort of read into what Jensen Huang was saying, you know this seems to be your point on the AI front. Just getting started.

Dan Ives
 Yeah I mean, look, this is an AI revolution and it starts with the godfather of AI, Jensen and Nvidia. And I think what you've seen play out is the foundation. There's only one red phone to get those chips and it's in Nvidia right. Despite what you know, some of the DeepSeek and other issues that we could talk about.

Dan Ives
 The reality is that we're in a $2 trillion AI CapEx over the next three years. Nvidia is really their world. Everyone else paying rent in terms of the chips. But it starts to what is a fourth industrial revolution. And I believe this is a stock that is ultimately going to have a two in farm. I mean, we believe it's a $4 trillion market cap, and ultimately be 5 trillion over the coming years.

Dan Ives
 When you think about physical AI, autonomous robotics. But look, the haters hate. And the reality is, is that if you focus just on valuation, you've missed every transformational tech stock the last 20 years. For Nvidia, I could argue it's cheap relative to you know basically trading mid 20s on a on a PE basis perspective. And I think this selloff here in my view it's sort of been a generational buying opportunity.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. And you know we're on the same page for our student funds. We're certainly very optimistic about the the future of AI and into us. And maybe you could comment on this and you basically said it. Everybody else is paying rent, but could you maybe speak a little bit more about to us? Right. Nvidia is in that pole position and you see what second place is AMD others seem to be way distant.

Rodney Lake
 Second, maybe you could mention a little bit about, you know, the competition, at least in the short medium term doesn't seem to be a reality.

Dan Ives
 Yeah. Look, it's it's essentially now reality for the next two, three years when it comes to the AI chips. Look, Nvidia, when you look at Blackwell, they're essentially sold out throughout 2025. You could Rubin next year. Right. And I think that's something that you'll start to see that gets sold out. You know, as we are ultimately again to orders I think when you look at names like Broadcom, that probably is the best way.

Dan Ives
 What I view as a secondary way to go in terms of A6 and just my view of where training and inference are going. AMD, look, obviously a lot of optimism that they were going to get there and they will. Look, Lisa Su, in my opinion is one of the best CEOs out there. But Nvidia and Jensen were years ahead of anyone else. So it's going to take a very long time for anyone even again that five, eight, 10% market share.

Dan Ives
 And then you look at names like Intel basically run like municipal government right. I mean that's one where that should have been an epic disaster. Yes. And it just shows where Nvidia is going to continue to dominate. And that's why I believe this is one any sell off Nvidia, you own it. Because in my view of where this is all heading.

Rodney Lake
 Right. And maybe also comment on this ecosystem, I think a lot of people that maybe don't know as much about Nvidia, certainly as you do, you know the Cuda software piece of this. And could you maybe talk about how that sort of extends their dominance, dominance in this system, where they really are building an ecosystem and have built, whereas others including AMD and not quite in the same room?

Dan Ives
 Yeah, it's a great point. I mean, and I think in GTC really lay it out because when you think about the chip as really the foundation to AI use cases. Look you only have 4% of enterprise in the world that have even started AI, none in Europe, none really in Asia, outside China. So we were just so early days.

Dan Ives
 But when you look at the next layer, you talk Cuda you talk about the software layer where there's really an arms race going on or around tech in terms of big tech, whether it's Amazon with Microsoft, Alphabet. What Jensen, Nvidia are doing is they're just expanding more and more of that end to end platform. Now the golden goose, what they're really going after is physical AI when it comes to autonomous robotics.

Dan Ives
 That to me is really probably going to be the biggest opportunity when it comes to actual AI. But you're seeing this all play out in front of us in terms of this, who's going to own the software layer? Who's going to own the chip? And Nvidia, because they're so far out, they're going to continue to just further and further expand that moat.

Rodney Lake
 And I want to I want to move on to some other names. But before we move on to any other names, could you maybe, when we talk about management when we talk about the Investment Institute, where what we train our students is business, management, price valuation, balance sheet. You talked about the valuation a little bit on on Nvidia. But maybe talk about Jensen Huang a little bit, as you mentioned, godfather of AI.

Rodney Lake
 Could you maybe just give your views on sort of how effective he is as CEO.

Dan Ives
 At Mount Rushmore. I mean, I mean, I look, I've done this and met thousands and thousands of companies and I mean, Jensen, you're talking about a rare breed in terms of what you know, what he's done. He has the vision, the understanding. He's somewhere 3 a.m. will sent emails. He look, I think it speaks to our view. Never overestimate how good a management team could be and how important.

Dan Ives
 And never underestimate just how bad a management team could be. Right. And I think this is a good example because leaders lead. And ultimately we're not talking about AI. We're not about Jensen’s black leather jacket. If it's really not for that origin of vision, go back 2022. Investors vast majority, why are you spending on AI? You're gaming.

Dan Ives
 You're a gaming chip company, right? But he had the vision. That's what Cooks has. Nadella. Musk. Karp. And it continues. And that's why I think when you look at the companies you cannot what I believe it is really like, you know, just brushed aside who's running it. Right. I think that's a huge sort of core, the hearts and lungs.

Rodney Lake
 Thank you. And you mentioned and the next thing we want to get to, which is Musk, some of the names you want to get to. And so I saw you posted on X about Musk. Organize this all hands meeting to talk about, you know, sort of what's going on at Tesla. And there's obviously a lot in the news right now.

Rodney Lake
 Maybe share your views on where you think Tesla is actually pulled way back. I think almost 50% from its high. I think right after the election. Talk about, you know, your view of where Tesla is right now. Do you think this is a short term phenomenon? Do you think this is a bump in the road as far as you know, people being concerned about the price of the stock?

Rodney Lake
 Or do you think this is the same as Nvidia. This pullback is another buying opportunity.

Dan Ives
 I mean obviously a much different situation there in terms of with Musk and Doge, the Trump administration, some of the brand issues that's really become you know where Tesla's become a political symbol right. And that's something for a brand that's never a good thing. Now again, Musk, known him from the beginning, he goes to the beat of a different drum. He's not someone that's going to back down.

Dan Ives
 And that's been part of the issue here, is that you have to separate between near-term and medium to long term. When I look at who are the best disruptive technology players over the next decade, it's Nvidia and Tesla. I mean, to me, Tesla autonomous robotics will be multiples of the value, right, of what the company is today. You know, that is really what they're going after. Now in terms of brand warriors and everything.

Dan Ives
 Like we've said, Musk definitely needs to better balance, and needs to navigate. And I think last night was a it was great to see that. That was a great first step in terms of in what he did. But it doesn't change the true value of Tesla over the long term. I believe autonomous itself is worth $1 trillion.

Rodney Lake
 Right. Just the full Self-Driving? 

Dan Ives
 Just full Self. And I believe in the next 5 or 6 years, like I, I think 20% of vehicles are essentially going to be autonomous. My I, my view is if you have an eight-year-old, they’re not really going to need a driver's license given where this is all going. But then it comes down to near-term, okay, how do you navigate it?

Dan Ives
 Six times you've had 50% sell offs in Tesla. I believe this is one like I think Tesla from years is a 2 to 3 bagger relative to where it goes over the coming years. I'm not saying it can't go lower, right. But if you look at the market opportunity and where they're going to go, many times I've been there with Musk and say it's done. He’s over.

Dan Ives
 But again, for someone that I'd argue is a modern day Albert Einstein, they'll also navigate this crisis. And I think you're you'll see a more balanced Musk in terms of how he handles between Tesla CEO and Doge.

Rodney Lake
 Yeah, thanks for sharing that and following up on on this on Tesla, you mentioned the robotics piece of this.

Dan Ives

 Optimus, yes.

Rodney Lake

 And Optimus is the is the you know, the platform that they're building on. Could you maybe extend and describe for for our viewers on YouTube and and certainly on the podcast you talk about, you know, what do you think that market looks like and how long do you think that it takes to evolve?

Dan Ives
 Yeah. Well, first of all, they have the production scale and scope that's unmatched. And that's very important because, you know, a lot of times they'll be like great technologies, but you can't scale them. When you look at Tesla when it comes to optimism, I mean I think we're talking with what’s ultimately gonna be 100, 150,000 robots being made per year coming out of the factories that we see in Fremont as well as in Austin, there's going to be the factory or we'll say enterprise, where robots are obviously going to be, you know, hugely deployed, but it's going to be on the consumer side in households.

Dan Ives
 Now, remember, these are essentially AI brains. AI chip where they're going to start to know more and more those functions and those. And that's why when it comes to I talk about physical AI, autonomous and robotics, that is the holy grail of AI. They are there's two companies that essentially will own that market. Nvidia, more from the chip side.

Dan Ives
 And what I view is Tesla, so really when it comes to, you know, when it comes on the consumer side, I do think autonomous will probably be more valuable than the whole thing because that that ultimately is really when it comes to AI, the most complex AI piece that I think they are on a fast track to, to accelerate.

Rodney Lake
 Yeah, maybe before we move on from Tesla, maybe just talk about this similar to what we talked about with Nvidia, what do you think is the real competition for FSD and and sort of the Optimus platform?

Dan Ives
 Yeah, I mean like especially in China, BYD and others were obviously very competitive. But it's all about scale. I mean, by next year you have 10 million Teslas on the road. But it's not about when I say I've never viewed Tesla as an automobile company. Disruptive tech. And the reason I say that is that only 15% of Tesla is, is for self-driving.

Dan Ives
 And I guess to 50% next 2 or 3 years. Okay. But when it comes to autonomous you're going to have competition, let's somebody’s like, oh wait I was in a Waymo and Scottsdale at one of the four cities. Waymo are $240,000 cars. Yeah. They're not scaling. Tesla’s going to be able to make ultimately what I view as cyber cabs, robo taxis starting next year.

Dan Ives
 We're starting, when you think about Austin in June unsupervised FSD. It's already starting. And I just think it's one where Tesla’s a name where because of Musk and because, you know, it will come when the most emotional bull bear stories probably ever in the market.

Rodney Lake
Right. Yeah. 

Dan Ives
 You have to separate from that to the pure technology. And that's at the end of the day, you own names because their technology lead where you think it's going. And that's why we've always been bullish on Tesla.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. Well we want to move on to another name. So another name that you called early and knew well and know well is Apple. And some of the criticism recently for Apple is like, they're missing this AI boom and they're falling behind. What's your view on you know on Apple. And I think everybody would agree that Tim Cook has done and is doing a fabulous job.

Rodney Lake
 But maybe not for this that AI piece.

Dan Ives
 Look I think they play a different game now I'm not saying from an innovation perspective now be a huge part narrative. Right. They're done innovating. They they've but the reality is is that for them it's really been about install base. Right. And if you go back to you know now I got 1.5 billion iPhones, 2.4 billion iOS devices.

Dan Ives
 They could lose the first round, the second round, the third round. But if you win fourth through 12 you win the match. And the point is 25% in the world is going to access is going to access AI through an Apple device. 99%, 99.2% individuals, once they go Apple, they never leave. So it just speaks to my view where they will get this right in, in I think partially in iPhone 16, especially iPhone 17 and so on.

Dan Ives
 And I think services with that ultimately is going to do that's going to add 10 to 12 billion per year to services business to the Apple's one, those names. I'm not saying that they're not going through a transition of growth. They are. But you have to be able to look past that to ultimately, just like enterprise AI is owned by godfather of AI Jensen, Nvidia. Consumer AI is owned by Cupertino.

Dan Ives
 And that something as it plays out more and more, that's going to be huge to the stock. But it goes back to 2007. They launch iPhone. It's only with AT&T. A year later, financial crisis hits. Everyone's like that's it. BlackBerry, Nokia. Like they're going to be the ones that it was a great year for Apple, that’s it.

Rodney Lake
 Right.

Dan Ives
 They went from 20 million customers then now 1.5 billion iPhones. I'm just saying sometimes it's very easy with these stocks. When you go through some of these periods to get into a certain narrative, sell the stock, think it's done right. But I think that has been the wrong move. And I think Apple's in the name. You don't trade it, you own it.

Rodney Lake
 Right. Well that's been the case for us. That's been actually one of the our largest positions for our student funds. And we bought it basically for you know, five and, and held on. That's the smartest thing that we did was not sell.

Dan Ives
 But but again, as I always say, like the haters hate. They've hated Nasdaq from 2000 to 20,000. Always waiting for a black swan event. You know. And it's one where the reality is that tech innovation is going to continue to accelerate. And I think when you own the winners and you own the names that are driving that those are ultimately investments that have been those those have been the historical names to own.

Dan Ives
 Right. I mean, go back to Meta. 85 bucks. No one cares about wage down 22. Next thing you know it’s six 700 dollars right now. It's always easy when the stock's moving to then call. But I think in the the best opportunities are when you go through those white knuckle moments. Those are the inflection points that have created the best opportunities.

Rodney Lake
 And with Apple here, I also want to ask you about your views on, you know, the market in China and connected to maybe the other things. I know you travel all over the world and you see a lot of different stuff, and obviously that's great intelligence. What do you think about Apple's the current market in China for Apple specifically?

Rodney Lake
 You know, any thoughts generally about, you know, the market in China for tech?

Dan Ives
 You know, I, I know you're just in China as well, right? 

Rodney Lake

I was.

Dan Ives

I mean, yeah I mean like look it's one and I'm sure, you know, you've seen it yourself. It's like look Apple is the second biggest employer and app in in China at peak iPhone season. To the view that Apple is going to get out of China and move everything to the US.

Dan Ives
 That's a fairy tale Cinderella Netflix story. 

Rodney Lake

It seems like it.

Dan Ives

That’ll never happen ok. That’s why a lot of times even like when I'm here in DC and I’ll meet with people like congressmen and senators like we need to make iPhones here in the US. I’m like, if you like $3500 iPhones.

Rodney Lake
 Right. We could do it.

Dan Ives
 We can make them in New Jersey. If you $1000 ones, you keep making them in Taiwan. But look China's it's it's the hearts and lungs the gross story 20% of demand when it comes to iPhones. Clearly they've hit a soft patch. You've had success with Huawei and others domestic players, but I believe you're now going to start to get into a growth cycle in China for Apple.

Dan Ives
 And I just think it's one where Cook's 10% politician, 90% CEO. He's been able to navigate it. And to count Apple down in China is the wrong move.

Rodney Lake
 Yeah. And it's sticking with China here. And you brought this up earlier. It's more connected to video but certainly has impacts for the tech industry in DeepSeek. So when it came out you know everybody really you know freaked out a little bit and thought okay this is going to change everything. It doesn't seem like it did. And you hear Jensen talk about it's good for it's good for Nvidia.

Rodney Lake
 It's just going to grow the market. What what views do you have on the impact?

Dan Ives
 Well look first off I think there's a better chance of me playing with Saquon for the Eagles and than than DeepSeek spending 6 million and not using next gen Nvidia hardware. So I think the reality is like let's separate reality from the fairytale. So the view that like a $6 million startup, a hedge fund guy somewhere in his basement creates something that’s gonna take down US infrastructure.

Dan Ives
 That's that that's on that. That's basically the fictional fairy tale. So let’s just throw that out there.

Rodney Lake
 But you are wearing some Eagles green.

Dan Ives
 I am wearing some Eagles green. Even though exactly even even though being a Giants fan, I am. But the reality is, is that DeepSeek, you probably add two commas to what they spend to the 6 million. That's more realistic. And I think even when you've seen in terms of some of the arrests that we saw in Singapore like that, they were very, very likely using next gen Nvidia hardware.

Dan Ives
 But that's why like at scale now, that's why Big Tech spent 325 billion this year in CapEx, 100 billion increase. The view that like they're overspending, overspending, cap. I just I strongly disagree from everything we see because you're essentially building out a new infrastructure. And that's why something where as this all plays out, I think it's one where that actually bullish for Nvidia and for the AI revolution, because the cheaper the models are, whether it's China, US, Australia, it doesn't matter.

Dan Ives
 Yeah, because you need the models to be cheaper to ultimately drive more and more infrastructure. GPUs will be used for use cases.

Rodney Lake
 Again and that seems to be the case. It seems like it's, you know, maybe a false comparison to talk about one versus the other. It's really about the pie is going to keep growing. And right now Nvidia is going to keep servicing that pie, whether it's on the lower end or the higher end.

Dan Ives
 And then it's Nvidia and then ultimately it's Broadcom. Then my view is like it spreads out whether it's Qualcomm and other chip players I think the view well that's also why like in the geopolitical landscape with Trump and words about you know export controls and tariffs and what does that mean with China, the view is that like is that decoupling? It's China versus US.

Dan Ives
 I mean my view is that its all a game of high stakes poker as it plays out. And I think if you if you play it thinking, okay, what’s step three four, five, you're going to realize that, a lot of the tariffs, I think bark's worse than the bite. I think the export control is going to be not as restrictive as maybe some of the fears are there.

Dan Ives
 And I think eventually a deal gets done between US and China. So I don't view it as a decouple market. But China is a competitor. I mean, I think for the first time in 30 years, US is ahead of China when it comes to tech. But if you put China tech MacGyver style in a box with like two toothpicks in some, you know, and basically a PC, they'll figure out a way, right, to create, you know, obviously more and more infrastructure, but I don't view that as a bad thing.

Dan Ives
 More and more innovation continues to be the way it's all going to drive this. But if you look that's also why I'm I'm bullish on names like Alibaba. Even names like KWeb, we I mean ways to play China tech, but I don't view it as a sort of black swan event for US tech.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. Well thanks for that. I think that's super helpful. As you mentioned I was in China and I, I fully agree here. You know we're one and two on the innovation front and possibly AI. Right. We've pulled ahead in let's say from the immediate term from China on the new stuff. But it seems like it's us and China and then everybody else in the world.

Rodney Lake
 Do you think that there's any other spots in the world that are really relevant at this point for AI?

Dan Ives
 I mean, like, you're I'm definitely seeing, you know, some shoots that could be positive coming out of France and some of the startups in the in and they had an AI conference there a few months ago. 

Rodnay Lake

Oh, interesting. 

Dan Ives

You know, but then again, Europe is very restrictive when it comes to data privacy. That's a huge issue. I think you see a lot more appetite when it comes to AI in the Middle East.

Dan Ives
 But a lot of those investments are going to come through the US. Some will come through China, but it's going to be US and China. You know, obviously a lot is coming out of Israel in terms of core AI technology. But look, we're early days. I mean, the point is like, that's why I say, like we're year three in what's going to be a ten year buildup.

Dan Ives
 And I think that's what fuels this tech bull market. It continues to fuel it in terms of the actual spending.

Rodney Lake
 Yeah. And and to your point, it seems like, you know, the answer to the question, the who wants to fall behind on the AI in a wave is, is none of the big players. And so they're going to keep spending money to your point.

Dan Ives
 But it's an arms race. And then like when you think about big tech, big tech has 1.2 trillion and generates 385 billion a year in free cash flow. Now, even to some, I would say, which is good through like the dark sort of comparison, .com bubble to now, they show the Cisco charts or the Nvidia chart, tech was trading what, 37 times revenues in early 2000.

Rodney Lake
 Very different multiple days, for Nvidia.

Dan Ives
 Now tech trading in 27 times earnings. When you look at who is awesome in terms of. com, who is building an out? Startup, VC, upside down business models. Who's building it? It's Big Tech. So that's why I just think its when you understand where the spending is, it is an arms race building it out. And that's why I continue to believe like the AI party, it's still 10 p.m. it was 9 p.m. and it goes to 4 a.m..

Dan Ives
 Now, I'm not saying in that period like DJ styles play music, glass on the dance floor. Cops come. You think cops come to the party and we're going to maybe some of those periods now, but I think tech makes new all time highs in 2025.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. And moving on to another tech name Microsoft. So you mentioned their CEO as well. And they're at the center of this as well. Obviously they're backing, OpenAI and what's happening there. Give your thoughts on sort of Microsoft's position in this market on specifically on AI?

Dan Ives
 I mean, it's central, right? I mean, in other words, like we're not talking about AI if its not for what Nadella and Microsoft have done. With the relationship with OpenAI. And then ultimately it's in their core backyard on the enterprise side. In other words, as more and more enterprise move to AI. It's going to go with Microsoft, and it's going to be a huge accelerant for Azure.

Dan Ives
 For Copilot, you talk about end to end, you talk about software for in terms of Nvidia, I think Microsoft's going to be the core beneficiary. 

Rodney Lake

Interesting.

Dan Ives

When it comes to enterprise. But right now, I mean the DC Ubers negative on Microsoft to the point is a you're going through one of those periods where I get it. I think in large cap, that's probably the most oversold name that we see.

Dan Ives
 And I think Nadella is another one just like Jensen. Just like Cook, just like Musk. You know, I think he's able to see as far as to the trees unlike anyone else.

Rodney Lake
 And maybe to follow up on the piece around the enterprise. You think the software is because of the installed base that they have, because so many people are using Office as an example.

Dan Ives
 And you're an enterprise shop, like if you're an enterprise shop and you're going AI, you go and Microsoft.

Rodney Lake
 An unknown commodity for you.

Dan Ives
 And and that's something where look those some of the nuances and and that's actually why like Amazon and Google have chased Microsoft you know relative to where they sit from you know, from a core enterprise backyard perspective.

Rodney Lake
 And then you mentioned those two names there. Could you talk about some of the names that you think are, you know, kind of falling behind, on this? I certainly of the Mag Seven, you mentioned a couple here, you know, who do you think are the leaders? We've talked about that, but how would you kind of place Amazon, Google, Meta, in this race?

Dan Ives
 Look at my view is like the reason we're bullish on all of them because I think in different ways they're all going to benefit. Like I could argue Alphabet, Google. They're going to benefit from digital advertising perspective, cloud. And you could even argue a lot of the offshoots in terms of new disruptive tech and that ecosystem where Alphabet's going to win.

Dan Ives
 You know, Amazon clearly nudged on the e-commerce tab. I think AWS that's going to be a huge accelerant that maybe they were late to the game. But I think Jassy has a great game plan. I think you've seen a huge turnaround there. I think, but when you take who are losers? I think names on the wrong side of this.

Dan Ives
 Tt's names like Dell, Cisco, HP, the traditional sort of hardware. I think they're on the wrong side. But then there's a names like UiPath. Like some of these software names are almost getting disintermediated from AI, I think stronger are gonna get stronger. Yeah. So that's going to continue to play out. But I think also when it comes to use cases, that's where names like Salesforce.com, the Messi of AI, Palantir and others are going to continue to lead.

Rodney Lake
So I want to follow up on that name, Palantir. And you were early in on Palantir. Great call. Many, many great calls. But including this one, maybe talk about your thoughts on Palantir. A lot of people, and maybe for the benefit of people watching this show and listening, maybe give a little bit of a preview of what Palantir actually is, because a lot of people have heard that on the news.

Rodney Lake
 They obviously think it's an important company. But, you know, in your own words, as simple as possible. What does Palantir do and why are you optimistic about their AI?

Dan Ives
 Look, Palantir and Alex Karp, you started Palantir and in the core fabric of it, it started off as really a government. And they were playing within three letter agencies in the US, Western governments. That that was their core Palantir. But essentially when you look at it like next gen data analytics, what I view is really core AI is the models they've built now, of course, being used in the defense side, then starting to bring that into the enterprise, they hit gold.

Dan Ives
 I mean, because that technology, there's you talk about Nvidia there’s no one that's near Palantir when it comes to their core tech. So when you look at AIP and you look at software, they've now really starting to own the enterprise in terms of use cases. And that's where like that's another one like very similar is like Tesla like haters.

Dan Ives
 Palantir. They but that's how the stock went from basically a bar mitzvah age to $100 in a year because they were able to ultimately be so massively successful when it came to the enterprise side, in my view, I think it's $1 trillion market cap in the next 2 or 3 years. But it goes back to like if you sit there, focus on valuation, you've missed every transformational tech start to last 20 years.

Dan Ives
 And that's why I would much rather own a Bugatti in the left lane in terms of tech going 90 miles an hour right then own value in a minivan, the right wing with a bumper sticker and saying my kid was a third grade honor student.

Rodney Lake
 Who followed up on that? Talking about somebody who is very colorful. Karp, the CEO of Palantir. Maybe your views on Karp as a CEO of Palantir.

Dan Ives
 I mean, Karp, someone I've known a long time. I'm just a huge fan of him personally, as well as professional. I think he's he's someone that he understands visionary where governments and enterprises are before they even know where they're going. I think he built the company when you think about it, even when it came to AI, he was never focused on LM.

Dan Ives
 He wasn’t focused on models, his views’ all the data. And and actually, even when you think about things like DeepSeek, it's actually more supported that thesis. And I think Karp someone that is just know a lot of time when you look at whether it's Musk, Karp, you know and obviously there's a bunch of other I see Jobs is like this in some ways, sometimes like CEOs are obviously misunderstood.

Dan Ives
 There's huge views on them that could be, you know, negative views. I think sometimes it skews the view of the company. Palantir is one of the best disruptive technologies, not just in the US but in the world. Karp is a huge part of that.

Rodney Lake
 Okay. And as you mentioned, you know, a solid management team is obviously critical to the success of any company. And again, this is one of the foundational pieces that we teach our students here at the GW at the GW Investment Institute. So thanks for saying that. So now I'm going to move on to a couple of other things.

Rodney Lake
 So maybe let's broaden it out, for the market. You know, like what what are your thoughts around, you know, transformational tech outside of AI? Do you think that there are, you know, other pieces of the tech market you mentioned some people that are probably falling behind on this piece, but do you do you think that there are other places that you should be in tech?

Dan Ives
 I think cyber I mean, to me cybersecurity is the table pounder sector, because now obviously there's just acquisition with Wiz, you know, for Google 32 billion, but you still have less than 50% data in the cloud. As more and more data moves to grab, we think 80% next two years. That's going to be huge when it comes to cybersecurity.

Dan Ives
 That's why names like Palo Alto, Zscaler, CrowdStrike, CyberArk, names like Check Pointer are core names that were bullish because we are in a golden age for cybersecurity.

Dan Ives
 So and, and I could argue two, it's almost a defensive sector in tech.

Rodney Lake
 Okay.

Dan Ives
 That's also a third derivative of the AIR revolution because I think also you want to start to think about who the second third derivatives of AI.

Rodney Lake
 So a company that we own, just to follow up on this is CrowdStrike. In one of our student funds, they obviously had a big pickup, to say it nicely.

Dan Ives
 July 19th. Yeah.

Rodney Lake
 Connected to the airline industry and to all those sitting in Heathrow not connected to this, but certainly sitting in an airport. It seems like they they made their way through that. Does that say much about the management or just about the importance and scarcity? What is your view of how they were able to work their way through such a public

Rodney Lake
 You know, screw up?

Dan Ives
 That would be like a Harvard Business Case, whatever. They'll study for decades. I mean, if you think about it like one of the best example, I mean, they went through a crisis that was global. And when you think about what happened to the stock and the view of what that was going to mean to CrowdStrike and competition centered on one that didn't lose one customer.

Dan Ives
 So it's another exam. I, I know it's one that you probably, you know, that they you teach here. GW its like customers and install base. If you could keep customers when you go through things like this, that is the best sign of confidence you could ever get. And this is where CrowdStrike made new all time highs.

Dan Ives
 My view that is like one of the best breed cybersecurity players out there.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. Well, thanks. We're we're long at. So we're we're in agreement for sure. And I do think it's a good lesson. And we certainly try to instill this in our students is that, you know, understanding how a management team can navigate a crisis that if the customers don't, you know, leave during that period, it obviously means there's.

Dan Ives
 And sometimes in the crisis, it's very easy to run for the hills. But the reality is that does actually create some of the best opportunities.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. So now, you know, thanks again for being here. I want I maybe step back a little bit from the companies. And before we fully wrap up, the show is, as I mentioned here, this is our students manage, you know, about $10 million markets pull back a little bit. But we're super proud of the performance from our students.

Rodney Lake
 And we're absolutely trying to get our students better opportunities to whether it's Wall Street or any financial services, they're even more now tech and tech related things. And I know that you started an AI innovation center at Penn State. Congratulations. I think that's a great work. What advice would you give to not just our students, but just students in general that are trying to get into financial services?

Rodney Lake
 What skill sets do you think? Obviously, AI is probably part of that, but what skills do you think that they should be learning while they're in school?

Dan Ives
 Look, I think AI is going to be more and more important in terms of whether it's on sales and trading, whether it's on banking, research, quant. I think that's going to become more and more of a skill that you need in terms of, you know, that development tool, understanding code, how to build things like that. I think, and that's why it's a huge passion of mine, to give students, wherever they are, the tools that they could ultimately accelerate themselves.

Dan Ives
 And I think it's just look, I hear from students, you know, obviously daily, you know, around the world. I think part of it is like you have to understand, like how you could differentiate yourself, whether it's like understanding stocks, building models, writing reports on companies, the other skill sets that maybe other people don't have. I think it's something where you have to continue to kind of build and differentiate yourself, and that's something where I don't care what school, where you're from, how tall you are.

Dan Ives
 I think then the reality is, is like in this world, it's a flat world. Information flow is easy and there's so much access at the fingertips. But I think it's also about dudes showing like cars have five gears. Okay, so but I think it's showing like the fifth gear, right? Yeah. Too many people. I mean it's like third gear.

Dan Ives
 And the thing is you need to show the fifth gear in one way or another, because I think that's one thing that like when you're doing my internships and super days, and jobs, that's what stands out.

Rodney Lake
 I think that's excellent advice and thanks for, for saying that. Moving on. From that, you know, you were, you know, mentioned as the best dressed by the New York Post. You know, what do you take inspiration from, from your clothing line?

Dan Ives
 Yeah. I've always, look, I mean, I love colors. It's always and that always like, I've always put a lot of colors into how I've whether it's from a work perspective or even personal. And I think it's something where I, you got to dress to just what makes you comfortable. And that's what always made me confident you're in.

Dan Ives
 Actually, it's very similar. Like how I call stocks. Right. Like I'm not wearing the Peter Millar shoe, this or that. Like, you know, and you're not going to find it in the spreadsheet. So, you know, I take inspiration, I travel, you know, globally. So I'm always able to pick up different sort of, you know, funky, you know, shirts, hats, stuff like that.

Dan Ives
 But, look, I think it's all you go to the beat of a different drum and, and then look and I think that you make it fun too. Right? It's like I think that I think that how I always have kind of gone about it.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. All right. And before we really wrap here, what advice would you give just broadly words of wisdom. First for students, but really for anybody who's watching our show that's interested in the market, you know, how do you, you know, stay relevant. Obviously some of the things, you've called so many great, you know, calls or made so many great calls, rather, you know, what advice can you give to all of us, including me on how to find those things?

Dan Ives
 I think, first off, it's like being dialed in and being ready for when that moment happens. When you have the informational interview for ten minutes and you and that person say, okay, what stock do you like and then like, you know, you basically don't have any or you basically say, I like Amazon because I really think that they sell, you know, e-commerce things.

Dan Ives
 So I think part of it is just like, be ready for the moment, but have your own style, you know, like, what different are you a value investor? You growth like what what names you focused on. Like why do you want to be in this? Whether it's banking, sales and trading or whatever it may be. And I think more and more it's just it's making sure you have a passion for what you want to do.

Dan Ives
 The goal is not to be in a job where 60 minutes comes on Sunday night and you get the gut feeling in your stomach, and you’re like Monday morning starting , the goal is that you want to do something that you enjoy. You don't focus on just like money, prestige, because those things go up and down really quick. But it's just I think it's really just having the passion for it and not just doing it because you just doing it's doing it because you want to do it.

Rodney Lake
 Excellent. Well, I think that's a great place to stop here. And I just want to say, my gratitude to you for being on our podcast and spending the day here at GW. You're also speaking at our conference today as our keynote speaker. So we're super thrilled, for that. And that's a huge benefit to our community.

Rodney Lake
 So thank you for doing that.

Dan Ives
 No. And thank you for inviting me. And I'm just like, so excited to be here. And, like, it just impressed with everything like you and your team have done. And you know, in terms of this university really differentiating it in terms of just that edge. And I think that's something I'm just happy to be a part of today.

Rodney Lake
 Well, thank you, Mr. Ives. And again, I want to say a special shout out in addition to you and Mr. Greg Wang and Mr. Russ Ramsay, who help, Greg in particular helped put this together. And Russ, who helped put together the FBR long ago. Lightning in a bottle, you know, many years ago. But certainly the number of people that have come out of FBR, is impressive.

Dan Ives
 It’s like a hall of fame for Wall Street.

Rodney Lake
 Exactly. So including you. And again, our gratitude to you, Mr. Ives for being here. Thank you very much.

Dan Ives
 Thank you.

Rodney Lake
 That's a wrap for this episode of Market News with Rodney Lake. See you back on the next episode.

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